Stay Away From These Products…
September 14, 2010 by fladlien
Filed under Uncategorized
I bet you got burned. It’s partially your fault, too.
There is a disturbing trend going on right now, especially with ClickBank launches. The main model is this:
Traffic Loophole Hook -> Blind offer for $77 -> 3-7 upsells -> Atrocious customer product and customer support.
I have seen a lot of people in the Warrior Forum review thread complaining because they got burned… I don’t want you to get burned.
So let me give you some good rules of thumb for investing in your business with Internet marketing products.
Rule #1 – If it’s blind, don’t buy it
A copywriting technique that’s incredibly effective is what’s called a “blind offer”. A blind offer is this – you don’t know exactly what you get until after you purchase.
If the sales letter spends more time telling you what it’s NOT than what it is… it’s a blind offer.
If the sales letter explains you’ll exploit a loophole… but doesn’t give you the slightest hint of what that loophole is… It’s a blind offer.
If you have no idea exactly what you’re getting, in terms of the training content… It’s a blind offer.
Compare that to my copy – I meticulously break down the major sections of my training. If it’s a way to get traffic through Facebook, I TELL you that. Be careful of copy like this:”It has nothing to do with Google, Yahoo, Pay Per Click, Ezine Articles, YouTube, etc.”.
Blind copy on a $37 or $77 price point will sell the living daylights out of your product. It will also bastardize your customer list you just built, send refunds through the roof and create support nightmares.
I never teach this tactic to my copywriting students, I never personally use it, and I NEVER… NEVER buy from it. Blind copy sucks!
Rule #2 – If it promises a “loophole” or “automation” be very careful.
The ClickBank trend right now is “traffic loophole”. I have seen 4 launches in the last two months that have put that exact phrase in the headline.
Product #1 - the “traffic loophole” that was teased was actually not a loophole – but an illegal violation of terms of service from Facebook. The copy for this product was “blind”. Hmmm!? Wonder why they didn’t tell you that you’d be doing something illegal in the sales letter? … 
Product #2 - the “traffic loophole” was an obscure pay per view advertising network that is actually a nice place to get traffic really cheap and make some decent money with it. Problem – you have to put a $1,000 deposit down to get accepted into that network. The copy didn’t mention that little fact. Hmmm!? Wonder why they didn’t…
Product #3 - the “traffic loophole” WASN’T a loophole at all. It was forum marketing, Ezine article marketing and a few social media sites like Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. See why the copy had to be blind? If they told you that these were the “secret traffic sources”, you would’ve realized there was no loophole. Dare I say it was a lie!? Gasp! Who would’ve thought?
Product #4 – the “traffic loophole” was a genuine loophole. Problem – right before he launched it, that secret traffic source was purchased and acquired by Google – who quickly fixed the loophole. Well, gee – can’t call off the launch when you got all the JV partners and everything in place, right? So just launch it even though the loophole doesn’t exist anymore. That’s a great idea, isn’t? That’s what they DID!
The TRUTH about traffic loopholes – if I find a genuine, powerful traffic loophole (and I do every so often) I do NOT sell it in a $77 product. I mean I’m a nice guy, but that would be a really dumb business move. It’s usually $297 or $497.
What about automation?
Don’t believe them… UNLESS they show you a demonstration. Automation is a power word that can absolutely get you to want to buy! That’s why you have seen a lot of these ClickBank launches USE that word in the headline.
The problem – nothing is automated! So don’t believe that something is automated JUST because the headline says it is. ONLY believe it MAY be automated if they show a demonstration of the automation on the sales page.
But you really can’t do that with blind copy can you?
Rule #3 – The Upsell Tidal Wave
A very profitable strategy for these launches is to promise you the whole world (and more!) for $37 or $77 – and after you purchase – take you to an upsell that says “well, if you really want to do it right, then you need to buy…”.
Oops! Instant disconnect. Doesn’t that piss you off? Let me school you two ways.
First, if you do upsells (and you absolutely should!), don’t do them like these ClickBank guys are doing them.
An upsell should be one of the following…
- COMPLEMENTARY to the original product without invalidating the promises of the original product. (Example – if we teach a traffic program, we might upsell “mind state stuff” to help them more effectively implement it… Or if we sell product creation… We upsell copywriting – because you need to write the sales letter for the product, right?)
- A Higher LEVEL version that doesn’t invalidate the promises on the original product. (Example – your front end shows a “down and dirty” way to do something… It’s good enough and made for people on a budget… But you extend the more thorough, more in depth version on the upsell for the people who want it… But you never claim on the sales letter for the front end product that it’s the end all, be all!)
- A really damn good deal rewarding the customer for making the first purchase with you. (Example – we do the buy 1 for 50% off, get 3 more free offer which is a TRUE special offer only on the upsell and can’t be gotten anywhere else.)
- A more in depth modality. (I can offer a product writing copy on the front end, upsell a 30 minute sales critique for those who want one on one in addition to standalone…)
Now let me school you the second way – EXPECT the upsell on a $37 or $77 product. These guys don’t DO giant launches unless big bucks are involved… And you can’t get big bucks on a $37 product without a stack of upsells, downsells and continuity thrown in somewhere.
So when considering purchasing the front end, ask yourself – “what kind of upsell should I be expecting to get? Will it be a bait and switch? Will it be something intentionally left out of the front end?”
After asking that question, THEN decide if you’re comfortable purchasing something on the front end that you think is either incomplete, or just “part of the puzzle” even though it’s presented as the whole puzzle.
Final word on upsells – I’m a HUGE believer in them… When done right, they are win-win. But from a consumer point of view, anticipate them and calculate them into your purchasing decision.
And you should use them in your business as well. Just use them the RIGHT way as I’ve outlined above.
Rule #4 – Support! (Or Lack Thereof!)
Here’s something fun to do during a product launch. Put in a simple support ticket before you purchase. See how long it takes to get a response.
Be prepared to be shocked!
I have no idea how this happens, but it happens more often than not. People buy product – don’t get download. 4 days or longer go by and they still don’t even get their product.
Okay, I’m not perfect. I run a small operation with just myself and my wonderful assistant Mary Jo. Yet we are on pace to do about a million dollars in gross this year. And we take support seriously. It’s very rare that something slips through the cracks. It happens, but not a whole lot. And when it does, it gets fixed.
Now I admit, I’m not the quickest to respond to personal requests that Mary Jo forwards me – but SHE usually responds and tells them she’s forwarded it to me.
And if it’s a simple download request, she handles that almost always within 24 hours or less.
The TRUTH about Internet marketing – there is no front end money in customer support. So when doing a launch, you don’t really need it to do big numbers. More important is the sales copy, the launch process, managing the affiliates and joint venture partners, email copy and so forth.
Customer support is not very profitable, so it’s not likely to get much attention or focus during the launch.
The only people who do customer support well, do it simply because they know it’s the right thing to do. Not because it’s very profitable. Those people have integrity.
But how much integrity do you think these launch guys with blind copy, false “loopholes” and bait and switch upsells have..?
So do you expect great customer service or support? Hmmm!?
Let’s bring this home..
What I have just done is probably pissed off a lot of my so-called peers. Lost a lot of potential joint venture partners. Alienated alliances that could bring me in big bucks.
Yeah, so be it. These ClickBank style launches are built around affiliates and joint venture partners – NOT around the customer. I build my business the other way – I attract great customers who eventually become long term affiliates and joint venture partners for me.
So if I have to be the only one with enough guts to stick my head out there and let you know the real deal with these things… While everyone who is in the “know” remains tight lipped about it… So be it.
But I wanted to give you some clarity on this so you don’t make a really dumb purchase in the future that you immediately regret. And when you save that money on dumb purchases remember me. Then come over and invest that in some of my stuff instead
Hi Jason,
Go ahead P&^s people off.
I have bought 3 new products and have returned them to clickbank for a refund because they were misleading. And the products were rubbish. Most of the big names are involved in these and they should be ashamed of themselves.
I now only buy from a number of people and they provide good stuff to supplement my knowledge at a reasonable fee.
My motto is if I am being ripped off by the product I return it for a refumd within 48 hours and delete them from my inbox.
Who do I follow: James Jones, Jason Fladien, Geoff Shaw and Rosalind Gardner all provide feed back when you comment on their sites IMHO the rest are just out to rip you off.
NIck Johnson.
http://www.vampirejewelry.org
Jason hats off man.
You nailed it to the T and advice well received. Been burnt before and been the dumb one to fall for the hype too in the past. With 2 refunds on these so called blind crap latelly I am so tempted to go on a “Guru” bash spree myself!
Rule # 4 – oh man. What customer service? Never mind support. After the 2 refunds I did just that on one of the latest offers. If it took days for anyone to geet a response back then I say weldone – I never heard back to this day!
Now off to write my shorter article on an aspect that is realy pissing me off to no ends – will sure be to reference this post in it
Cheers for top notch piece of ranting, erm I mean writing
I totally agree with all the above. I am trying to make a living with internet marketing for two years now but with no luck so far. And you know why? it can’t be done on low budget regardless what all the so called gurus are promissing. Being a guru means that your only concern is to make money and they just don’t care about you or your “no money” situation. Over the years I learned a very important lesson. If something looks too good to be true then don’t buy it. Therefore I don’t trust people doing big prelaunches. And certainly not when the product turns out to be at $17 or $37 because in that case you should know that the product is useless without the much more expensive upsells, downsells, sidesells etc. So, do NOT buy. If I would be capeble of helping people to become successful then I would make an agreement to help them first, without asking any money, and then when they are making money, and only then, ask for a small percentage as agreed in the contract. Ok I’ll stop here or this blog becocmes to small.
In the I.M. world, it can often seem like there are just a handful green apples in a big rotten bunch. If only more marketers followed and gave good advice like this…
Thanks for being a green apple with this post Jason.
At last! One of the few HONEST VOICES in a wilderness we call as internet marketing. It is about time we tell these CLOWNS that enough is enough!
We the consumers should tell these “bastards” that we want change. We are the one holding the wallet sow e should be the King and not the other way around.
I am really pissed at marketers who have the face and the gall to victimize other marketers!
I am happy you are the honest voice of internet marketing.
Excellent post, Jason. Goes right along with the entire theme of my own blog. I would like to add a link to your blog if you don’t mind. My email address is on this post, please email me and let me know if you’re willing to let me link to you.
My article covers the up-sell, too. I don’t agree with up-sells either. Put your total price upfront. If it’s worth anything it will move. If you want to offer another product that’s a different story.
Great information! I agree with you 100%. I have never seen so many products that are being sold that tell you what you don’t need instead of what you really do need. I just returned a product just like that to click bank.
Everything they said I didn’t need was in there upsells!
Your right they should give you a sample of how the product really works on a video! That would really make a product sell for me.
Ha ha ha couldn’t be talking about all the Benwell blogging BS could ya????
Yeah he’s the only one Bloggin to the bank! Automated blogs in 24 hours??? Yeah try a month then it’s a one pager filled with his products!!!
Great post… I, too have drowned in emails from the Gurus and their “friends” who are “teaming up with them” for this amazing offer.
I have found that if I sort the “Subject” in my email, and I see several “gurus” promoting the same stuff with the same exact product, I unsubscribe from their lists. The products may be fine, but I’m tired of the constant pitch to buy this “bestest most amazingest” product that will do whatever magical thing for you in under two hours flat.
Somewhere in my head has been the little voice that says, “yeah, but what if it’s true??? What if I can earn a gazillion dollars this weekend? Won’t my spouse be surprised? The truth? It ain’t gonna happen that way”.
One Guru, whom I respect tremendously keeps saying that IM is a marathon, not a sprint. How true.
Thanks again for a great, clear post.
With all the product launches, JV partnerships, etc., it’s just mind-blowing how the IM world is evolving or should I say de-evolving? I think you hit the nail on the head regarding products that promise “automation” and “auto-pilot”. Unintelligent (and “lazy”) implementation of such products will definitely water down the quality of websites and blogs, and the IM world in general. I believe you can use such products successfully, however, you can’t rest on the product’s claim that everything is push button easy, and after a few clicks here and there, and voila, your site/blog will be built automatically and on auto-pilot … no need touch it forever. That’s a bunch of you-know-what. You can use such products, but you need to put some work in it if you want to pump out quality stuff. It is refreshing to see such posts from an experienced IM’er. I haven’t seen your webinar on “Product Creation”, but I’ll definitely make sure I do. Thanks again for your post!
Glenn
I’m with Kevin. I’m going to get off mailing lists too, except for James (MicroNiche Marketing), Chris Malta (Worldwide Brands) and Denise Washington (How to Make Money blog). Everybody else has to go. I’ve been researching trying to find out how to make money online and except for the above, I haven’t bought into any of them. It’s all so much hype. Thanks Jason for your excellent post.
Good for you Jason.
I just hate it when I have ‘fallen victim’ to this, and find that after I have bought a product, I am then asked to buy something else to make it work the way it was stated in the sales letter. I then ask for a refund. My recent one was the product I bought – at a price – to find that it was a recurring monthly payment as well. I went through the sales letter with a fine tooth comb afterwards and never found where it stated that. Instant refund.
Thanks for your integrity.
Flat out, I don’t buy the upsells. The point here is, if it needs something more to use it and make it work after I bought it. It’s returned. There are good points to the fact that most use clickbank!
Wow Jason…
I’m a newbie in the marketing ring and was referred to your post from Greg Mitchelhill on another forum. Great information and this buyer beware.
Thanks!
There are so many product launches that when I think that there can’t be anymore, some Guru is sending me links to another one!
I have heard of one marketer, who boasts about making money from his list, like every time he sends them something. Why doesn’t his list wise up? He’s saying, “Suckers! I only want to make money from you!” Words to that effect.
Products like Jason’s should do what they say on the tin.
My two pennies.
Hey, there is a solution. Get a refund from Clickbank. Don’t even have to talk to anyone. Just a support ticket with cancel or refund. If it’s crap, it’s refund time. Enough of those and maybe Clickbank will screen the crap better. Or the creators will stop trying to sell crap.
I Love this! Everyone should keep a copy tacked up on the wall next to their computer to review before ordering. I’ve been unsubscribing from all the gurus who push these crappy products without any consideration for the circumstances of the purchaser My inbox is much smaller now!! We all have to start walking away to get the message across.
PS: To be honest – I hate up-sells! Just my opinion.
Well said Jason. I agree totally. But I’ll go a step even further.
I just flat out don’t like upsells. Period. Generally speaking, if you’ve already bought the product, it’s just too much of a pain-in-the-butt to abort at that point.
I know people will continue to use them and I’ll admit it can come across OK but only if it’s done very carefully. It really pisses me off to finally make a decision to buy something and then find out that I need to make another decision to buy something else in order to get my money’s worth on the money I originally spent.
Regards,
Art
p.s. Regarding customer service…I bought you big, expensive copywriting course a few months ago. How come I never hear anything from you about it..i.e. how am I doing, etc.?
Good for you Jason for having the guts to shout out what most of us are thinking. There is a lot of crap being heavily hyped and promoted these days my some so-called gurus that should know better. Ticks me off when you hear stories of some of these “fat cats” referring to the rest of us poor guys and gals trying to earn a few honest dollars online to better our lives as a bunch of mindless “cattle”. You know the old “Yeah well I am so great that one simple e-mail to my list (of cattle) and I can pocket $5000!”
Thank GOD for the Clickbank’s 60 day money-back guarantee! I will not purchase any product online anymore that does not have this guarantee. Heck with the product seller’s assurances of a refund, Clickbank has been excellent about refunds in a very timely fashion.
Good stuff Jason,
Seen a few similar rants on this topic recently and yours is special with its detailed description of these unethical offers. Names not really needed and I have had similar reactions/thoughts when offered those brain dead ‘loophole’ offers. Jeez, how long can a real loophole exist for anyway, like you said it gets fixed. (After the ‘guru’ jerk has taken his money.
Keep up your excellent client-focused IM work. Beacons of trust are getting hard to come by.
Hi Jason,
Great and true stuff and it all applies to Forex Robot sellers and marketers.
There is clearly a marketing company releasing a new forex product on a weekly basis with shallow pre launch webinars that tell you nothing but are just an exposure to a captive audience who thought they were going to hear something different but just get empty rubbish and high pressure sales tactice,especialy true with some products asking $997 to $2499 USD based on empty promises that turn our to be useless.
I commend you for having a go at these charlatans – likewise I will try and expose these marketing crooks. Seems as the exonomy is getting worse the tactics are even more corrupt and not honest at all.
Cheers
Jonathon Alexander
Yep, you don’t need this and you don’t need that, it doesn’t use this and it don’t use that, and this here is a magic loophole that will change your life forever. Well if you have a magic loophole why are you telling the world about it, because supposedly you are making a ton of money, so why do you have to take our $77.00 to promote your loophole. What is even sicker is all jerk-offs who send you a ton of emails on the magical loophole that they themselves have no idea what it is. Play upon people’s
stupidity and desperation to find a way to get ahead, that’s the way to make money these days. Another sign of a sick society.
To you Jason, it is a noble thing that you have done here but you did not
go far enough and I’m guessing you could only go so far before your phone would be ringing off the hook, or you would be getting hate mail, or your life might be threatened, who knows…..
Hopefully, if enough people get to your site, this effort on your part will make a difference to many of those who could have gotten ripped off in the future, and for that we owe you a big time “thank you”.
Paul
Thanks sooo much for this post Jason…
I was truly “blinded” two or three times myself, but now I know what to look for so I will not do that again!
Thank you
Good stuff Jason! I am a victim of this exact process, I just usually do not buy these upsells because I barely have enough extra cash to buy the main product in the first place. So when they throw in these tempting offers after we have decided to flip the bill for the innitial product it kind of bumbs me out that these other spectacular add-ons weren’t thrown in with the original product and just get it done with. I understand it is part of the process, but it is frustrating especially when you are on a tight budget.
Thanks for your knowledge!
Ryan K
Thanks for saving me big money. I intend to read everything more carefully. (And read everything you send)
*Question-
What systems DO you like for automation an in general? (article summiting, article spinning, auto blogging, keyword research, video submissions,etc)
Thanks in advance!
Jeremy
Thanks for laying it all out in the open Jason. I lost thousands to these creeps over the years. Although now there are only 5 marketers that I even consider buying products from and you’re one of them. It’s too bad I had to pay such a steep price to learn this lesson.
Thanks again.
Hi Jason…
Keep up the good work…so far you have not disappointed us by telling us to buy a product when it wasn’t any good…thats all any of us ask for.
You have created some big shoes to fill now…keep telling us how to really get things done and we will keep buying.
Thanks…Your cheap blind lady
Thank you Jason,
As your post has confirmed is that these launches have gotten out of hand! Yet, buyer be ware. The cream will flot to the top and the bottom feeders, well you know what they’re eating. Keep it real and lend a hand to a fellow marketer along the way.
Jason,
As a new guy to IM I often feel like I’m fumbling around in a dark closet.
Because you caught me at a time when my emails are over 300/day with offers
from every “IM Guru” in the biz – you probably saved me a lot of $ – and worse than that – frustration!
Thanks,
RonR
Phoenix, AZ
Thanks for the great post. I wish I could click “like”
Haha Great post. Tell it like it is! I have fallen for this before…more than once…sad really. I pretty much only buy things from webinars or products recommended by others…without sales pitch.
Jason,
Thank you Thank you!
This has needed said for a very long time. It is nice to know that someone who is making as much money as you are, is looking out for us who are busting ass to also be successful at this.
Thank you also for this article teaching us on what to look for.
I am going to be removing myself from all the lists I am on, except for you, James Jones, and Brian Johnson.
I will be buying your products my friend because you put out TONS of content, with all MEAT and no fluff.
I was in customer service for 17 years, so I can spot most of the shams…but I have been taken a couple times myself.
Kevin
Thanks Jason,
I know i have been caught up in the hype some of these launches offer. They make it sound so tempting. But inevitably once I have received my product I realized I have been crushed again. I have found you to be a real straight up guy and I appreciate it. Maybe you can force them to clean up their act.
Exactly! Perfectly stated Jason! I was going to start throwing out names of guru’s who are the biggest culprits but really you message to just stay away is the best one of all.
Always, always always look for a money back guarantee… if you do happen to buy into one of these bright shiny objects make sure you have a way to get your money back.. demand it!
Thanks for keeping it real Jason!
BTW- loved the webinar the other night! thanks!
That is an awesome post Jason! Coming from a great copywriter like yourself, puts a whole different spin on the matter – you have analyzed the copy! We will be better able to see through the tricks now. Thanks!
Thanks, Jason. You’re one of the few people I recommend when someone asks me who to trust online.
The other way I find out what the up sell is going to look like is to click on the Affiliate link at the bottom of the sales page. It will usually tell you what to expect when you get sales as an affiliate. Pretty easy to figure out what they’ll be trying to get you to buy before you click the buy button.
All the best,
Theresa
Thank you Jason, finally some honesty in IM.
Been burned by some really big names (EC AG MV) who don’t deliver bonuses but promise to down the line and never do. Of course wait 60 days and get stuck with the crappy product and by that time all leverage is gone and you just get ignored.
You burned some JV bridges with this post but you have certainly gained the respect of those of us who believe in honest marketing.
Good work Jason, about time exposed this for what it is. You forgot to also mention the fact that despite the massive hype associated wth the major launch, the sales letter says the product is going to be limited to just xxx people. After you buy and come back a few days letter the number of remaining products still hasn’t changed!
Totally agree, I have had to return several Clickbank products from hype like that were they did not deliver. Gradle
On the button… What more can I say
Excellent summary of all the sales tricks Jason.
I ‘like’ the blind copy letters. When they’re well written, the game is to try and guess what it is? Obviously I’m not going to buy, (although I admit I have in the past), because if the product isn’t good enough for public scrutiny it’s not good enough for me. 
John
It sure is easy to get hooked into some of these false promises and I have been caught a few times believing the hype. Thanks for the clarifications.
Clap clap clap! I like it a lot Jason! Now I am starting to release my own products myself I am trying to stay away from the “hypey” launch! Keep it nice and simple and have the customers interests at heart the most! I would be happy having a launch an only 10people buying but if they are happy and will buy and recommend me in the future that means more than a huge launch with 1000s of sales no one learning anything poor support etc. I do think that all marketers have different morals but eitherway if you market right you will still make money! Hence the reason you see all this sales pages with paragraphs of fluff!
Like I said you wrote this post at a good time for me coming unto launch!
Cheers
Ashley
Hello Jason,
I am new to anything regarding an online income. Although, I have “purchased several sales-pages” that were very convincing. I am a beginner with not a dime of income to show for my “investment”. “Help” desk, well a joke. Since I knew nothing of “Internet Marketing”, I purchased two-separate “big-ticket” items because they came with “marketing” knowledge and, were to be a “sponsor/mentor”. Long story short… they took the money and ran. I continue to review very long “sales-pages” as an education. Now, many of the guys are using an “audio/visual sales pages” since we live in such a short attention span society and have been TV conditioned, I guess. Your explanation of “blind offers” and “loopholes” was the education I was miffed about. I need a beginner’s step-by-baby-step “mentor” to get me involved at a very low cost. I am a stay at home dad raising our daughter as my wife works three-jobs, ugh! However, I am not one to give up, I just want to finally “get-it-right”. Thank you, keep up the good work.
Bruce
Lake Ontario, Canada.
Great, straight-talking advice. Thanks Jason!
Thank you Jason, your post hit on the main point. I used have been lured by the word “automatic” and wasted couple of hundred dollars. I was try everything that make myself believe the auto things does exist and regretted many many times. The worse experience I ever had is, I brought a product for $297. and I have no way to get to the download page again. T T
Thanks for this Jason,
I always take your advice, ever since I heard you on a webinar with James Jones.
You gave me some good tips then, and you’re still doing it.
Congratulations on this outstanding post, Jason. You are among the very few online marketers I trust and take the time to listen to or read whatever you write.
Thank God I’m vaccinated against these hyped-up product launches but I keep wondering about the JV partners and affiliates’ ethics (or lack thereof) of promoting such products.